On screen logo:

the FQ

Female Quotient

Speaker 1:

Hi, good.

Shelley:

So happy to see you.

Speaker 1:

You too, you too. Thank you for having us.

On screen logo:

Equality Lounge® @ SXSW

Shelley:

All right, everyone. So this is a really important conversation on two ends of the spectrum. We talk a lot about care and caregiving, but what we don't realize is that the caregiver is actually the same person. That's what we don't think about. Because caregiving is still predominantly the woman. And caregiving of our children and then caregiving of the elderly, of our parents, right? Yeah. And guess what? It's the same person, just the person when we're younger and then the person, when we get older. On both ends of the spectrum.

Karen:

But I will also say, it's not even just younger, like children and parents, but think about your friend circle. I feel like it's such a, I mean, it seems like such a feminine energy kind of thing, but you know, if your friends get sick, if something happens to your friends, something happens to their partners, women just step in immediately. And we are in that mode because like that's what we do.

Shelley:

Right, we're the caregiver. At the end of the day, it's still predominantly the female that takes that responsibility. Okay. So there you go. We're already breaking the rules. I'm not even starting with the script, but that's how we go.

On screen text:

A Prosperous Path Forward: Tips to Own Your Financial Future

Shelley:

I'm Shelley Zalis, the CEO of The Female Quotient, and we have the most interesting women that we are going to talk to. So let's start with, well, let me start with the topic. A prosperous path forward: tips to own your financial future. But I started talking about the caregiver already. Let's introduce ourselves.

Karen:

Hi, I'm Karen Chong, I'm the vice president of audience strategy for age inclusion at AARP.

Kirstin:

Kirstin Hill. I'm the COO of Merrill Lynch.

Shelley:

All right. So this conversation is such an important one because it is about tips to owning your financial future. And when we say owning your financial future, especially as women, typically, we don't own our financial future. We tend to, by default, let other people take that responsibility. So let's get right to the questions because this is such a short conversation and I want to get to the real crux of the matter.

Shelley:

So with the pandemic, have things changed? Have women sort of started thinking differently about their financial future and started to step up to saying, I need to take more responsibility? Pre-pandemic, were they thinking less about it? Post pandemic, starting to feel like they needed to take more charge?

Karen:

Well, one of the things that kind of stuck out at me when I was talking to my colleagues about this panel is, it really struck me that back a year ago there were data that came out that the unemployment rate had kind of flattened out. And it had, if you looked at the top line number. But the BLS stats were really misleading because women lost like 160,000 jobs and men gained. So it was flat, but it was the women who had suffered.

Karen:

So I think to me, a big part of the pandemic and women in finance conversation has to start with what has happened to women and the fact that we've lost so much ground. And so where we already, if the white privileged male starts at third base, like we already started back before first base and now, that we've gotten dragged back even further. And so I think part of this is really thinking about what happens to women when it comes to financial resilience and the fact that we tend to think about our own financial resilience, second, third, it's not a priority that we really think about. And I think that is where a lot of the damage comes in. And I will certainly let my colleague from Merrill Lynch here on the panel speak to that. But I think there's so much that women can do like small and large steps.

Kirstin:

Yeah. Well I think you're right. I mean, Shelly, you mentioned caregiving. I think there are some trends that existed before that were probably exacerbated in the pandemic. You said it 75 women bear responsibility, I think for around three quarters of the caregiving responsibility. You talk about daughters versus sons, could probably spend about two times as many hours caregiving. So that responsibility has always disproportionately fallen on women. And of course the pandemic exacerbated a lot of those trends, whether it's with your children at home, schooling, or with aging parents during a pandemic, being separated from them, being frightened for a health crisis that disproportionately affected the elderly. So it really exacerbated some of those trends.

Kirstin:

At the same time, and I think this is not just for women, I think it caused a lot of people to step back and say, what are my priorities? What matters to me? What do I want my life to be? And while we might sometimes wish that had nothing to do with money, it is not so. Right? And so I do think it's caused, I think when women do that well, when any of us do that well, what we're doing is saying, how do I plan for the future that I want? How do I prepare myself for the future that I want? Whether that's by paying down my debts, whether that's by saving my money.

Kirstin:

And that allows me, not just to prepare sometimes for the worst case scenario, but also maybe to prepare for the risks that I want to take and to put myself in a position to do the things, to take the risks, to take the steps that I might not otherwise be comfortable doing. So I feel actually really optimistic about that. And I don't want to hog the mic here, but there's a lot with the next generation of women that's changing too, that I think is really phenomenal.

Shelley:

Okay. So let's talk about that. But you know, first I want to level set with, what are some of the key financial topics and concerns that you hear about that women are asking about? Like, what are some of the key topics when it comes to the financial topics that working women are asking about?

Karen:

Yeah. I mean, I think it runs the gamut. You know, we've done some studies at AARP where we surveyed women during the pandemic. And we said like, how are things like, how are things going? Like, how are you handling self care and stress? And how is your financial state right now? And we also talked about age discrimination, because of course we're AARP, and it was shocking to me that one in three women experienced age discrimination in the job search process. So not only were women losing jobs, but it was harder to get jobs.

Karen:

And I also want to also remind people that like, when I say age discrimination, it's not just for like older women. It also happens to younger women. Like, I remember being like young and cute being dismissed because they're like, oh yeah, what do you know? Like, well, apparently I knew more than you thought.

Karen:

But it's difficult, right? So it's difficult for women across so many parts of our lives. And so when we think about the financial situation for women, we're talking about like caregiving, people think, oh, it's about time and effort and energy, but it's also $8,000 on average out of your pocket. And 25% of caregivers are millennials. So it's not the classic 60 year old person who's taking care of, like daughter taking care of parents. It's college students, or I guess coming out of college. But you know, it's younger people. So when I think about the burden of not just paying in this moment, like rent and setting up a home office and everything else, but then an additional thousands of dollars out of pocket in my twenties, like that's a setback.

Kirstin:

Yeah, for sure. I mean kind of turning that question on its head. I think one of the challenges for women and money is women don't ask about money. You know, we did a study several years ago now and it was really stunning. Over 60% of women said they'd rather talk about their own death than about money. That's not good. And again, so to me, I think the first step is to say, hey, what are the questions? Let's start talking about it.

Kirstin:

Let's start talking about what it is we earn, what it is we need, what it is we don't know, what it is we want to know, because these are all legitimate questions. Because at the end of the day, like I was saying before, your life goals can be enabled by your financial plan. And so don't short change your life goals because you're too afraid to have the financial conversation. I think, is that the important thing for us to remind ourselves of and to empower ourselves to start having that conversation.

Karen:

Yeah. And I love that, but I also think there's even like the most fundamental financial question for women to ask is ask for more money.

Kirstin:

That's true, that's true.

Karen:

Like before I can even get a financial planner, I need to get enough money that I can actually plan with that and actually enable that lifestyle because I can't tell you how many people I know, I just say, okay, you know that I either casually or more formally mentor and I think, oh, that's great, blah, blah, you got this offer. And they're like, yeah and it's exactly what I want. It's like awesome, go ask for more. Well, no, like they might not give it to me. Trust me. Like they will give it to you or they will tell you no, but they will know that you're not just going to settle, and then when you have that midterm conversation, you can then go back in and ask for more money again. But women traditionally don't ask for more money because we don't think of it that way. We don't think about our money, as you were saying, as a tool.

Kirstin:

Yeah. Something that can work for us. Yeah. I mean, I will say though, this does seem to be changing as you think about different generations. And I think that's amazing. I mean, you have an older generation of women who have blazed a trail for all of us, right. Who broke down barriers that luckily many of us never have to see in that same form again. But now when we look at and have surveyed women kind of under 45 versus over 45, you've got three quarters of those women who are managing their own money versus only around half when you look at the over 50%. When you look at younger married women, I think they're two times as likely to be the primary decision maker in their family as the older women, right. They're three times as likely to be confident making their own financial decisions.

Kirstin:

So those are all really powerful and cool trends. And so as much as sometimes it's very tempting to talk about everything that's wrong. There are a lot of things that are right too. Right? And so we have this opportunity to seize the momentum. Again, people are standing on the broad shoulders of the women that came before us and we kind of, we owe it to them to keep making it better and to keep doing more and to keep using our voices. And you all are doing that, and we just need you to keep doing it because it's phenomenal to see.

Shelley:

Okay. So you just identified the different generational perspective of the independence of the financial journey of women. And it's interesting to have AARP with the age differences. And I want to make this interactive, so I'm historically known as breaking the rules and breaking the script. So I go off script. So I'm going to go off script. Welcome.

Kirstin:

We love women who are rule breakers.

Shelley:

So sorry. I'm not going to use the script. I was trying to, but I'm not going to because you just unlocked it. So here we go. So I'm 60 years old. I came from the, just follow the path, my husband was like, making all the decisions. So I want this to be interactive. I want you all to ask some questions because I want to see how financially confident you are, and in this room ask anything. So don't be afraid. I want to go to financial confidence, financial literacy. I want to see how financially confident you are. You have two amazing experts here. So I'm going to open the conversations up to you. I want you to ask anything. Okay. And I'm going to admit this. I am not very financially savvy. So I'm going to ask you this question. Jump in, mic is yours. I'm giving you all the mic.

Shelley:

Okay. I'm going to start it, open for you. You're women.

Kirstin:

Yes.

Shelley:

Because I think most women today and what I'm finding from a lot of my girl friends so I'm going to open this up, that have either gotten divorced or husbands have passed or something, have found themselves lost. They don't know anything about their finances because their husbands have made those decisions. And it is really scary. Even, and I'm going to say for me, my husband in COVID got one of terrible viruses and he suddenly was on a respirator and we didn't think he was going to get out of the OR. Thank God he did. And he's poo poo poo, very healthy and he's all better. But it was very scary. I did not know the password to his computer. I did not know anything. And I thought, oh my God. Right? So now I know to have a cheat sheet of all these things, by the way, you have to know these things.

Shelley:

I didn't know the safe password. I didn't know the password to his computer where everything was digital and you know, which is it very important to know all these things last second, because who knows. Right? So you have to be financially independent and you have to know to make your own decisions. What percentage of women that you were advising over the age of 45 are now starting to make those decisions? Number one. And what is your advice to those women versus under? And with AARP you know, you have these women pre-tirement that are starting to make these choices, is my question number one. And then we're going to open it up to all of you.

Kirstin:

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't give you an accurate statistic around women over 45, but here's what I'll say. I mean, because at Merrill Lynch we have financial advisors and the way we think about it is it's our responsibility. It's our responsibility to make sure everyone's coming to the table, right. In this case, Shelly, it's our responsibility to make sure if you have a financial advisor and if your husband's the only one at the meeting all the time, we have to make the space. We have to make you feel comfortable. We have to find a way to bring you to the table because we are not doing your family the service that we owe you. We are not caring for you in the way that we should if we don't have the conversation in the way that works for you and in the way that brings you to the table.

Kirstin:

So, that's in many ways the way I think about it. It's like, yeah sure, I'm going to continue to encourage all of you to raise your hand. And I saw some of you did, which was so cool and we got to get to it, to ask the questions, to own it. But if you don't and you're engaging a professional, the truth is it's the professional's job to help make that happen and to have the conversation with you in the way that works for you. And you should feel free to ask for that and to have somebody who's caring for you, who's serving you, that you feel comfortable talking to.

Karen:

Yeah. And I will say that I did come across, prepping for this session, I came across a statistic that like 23% of women have had an actual, like financial conversation where they've had someone, an advisor or maybe even a parent, because you know, I don't think even within families, we have enough of that conversation. So in order to actually put your own plan in place, you have to even know what questions to ask and how to actually think about these plans. And at AARP, you may think of us as the retirement place, but you know, we have a lot of tools that just help you assess everything from your student loan status all the way through to different life stages and thinking about like, what is your financial resilience?

Karen:

We have tools to help you avoid fraud and a lot of other things. And we do direct people to financial counselors and advisors because there's a huge space for this conversation. And while I do believe wholeheartedly that the majority of women in partnerships and in families are controlling the checkbook, I don't know if they really understand how to ensure the financial health of their family, because I think financial literacy is something we don't really talk about.

Karen:

And you know, I love that women would rather talk about their own death than their financial portfolio. But if you think about it, we don't talk about our death either. Like I had a parent and we're two years later, we're still cleaning up like his accounts. Like I still get mail, like we've been notified that this person is deceased. I'm like, oh crap, there's another account. And another annuity. And it's just bananas because, as we might imagine, my mother had no idea where anything was. Like she knew there were things, but had no idea.

Shelley:

First of all, I have my own financial stuff, but I didn't know my husband’s. Right? So just, these are things you have to really think about. While I have my own financial independence, I don't know his stuff. So you have to think about these things. Or the same with my mother, my father passed four years ago, but she wasn't on his, even though they were married, she wasn't on his points. And so getting his frequent flier points was impossible. Like you don't think about this stuff. Right?

Kirstin:

No, I mean, it's funny you say that you talk about knowing your husband's information. But then we think about aging parents and I had this experience this summer, my dad was in the hospital several times and you know, luckily for me, my mom realized, okay, I need to make sure I A, consolidate my finances and B, Kristin, get you access to this information. I need to make you power of attorney so that when he's in the hospital, I don't have to worry about anything. And that if something happens, I know you can take care of it.

Kirstin:

Not everyone is that lucky to have somebody proactively identify it. But particularly for women, particularly for daughters, you're more likely, you're not the only person, but you're more likely to be the person kind of asked to help. And so again, it's another place where, hey, maybe we wish we didn't have to push the envelope. Maybe we wish we didn't have to try to have an uncomfortable conversation, but it's such an important conversation to have because it makes what is already an incredibly challenging time when you have a sick parent or a parent who's passed away, all the more challenging. And so it's a worthwhile conversation to have.

Shelley:

Yeah. So important. I want to ask one more question and then I'm getting to these questions so that I don't get in trouble for not asking the questions I'm supposed to ask because I will get in trouble. Okay.

Kirstin:

You're the boss.

Shelley:

Okay.

Karen:

It's your panel, do what you want.

Shelley:

Okay. So just give me quickly, three things women could do to build their finances for the future and creating generational wealth. And then I'm coming to you guys.

Karen:

Yeah. So I think number one, I would say, and let me just say my little story of, like trying to figure out what's going on with my dad's finances. We actually did financial planning. We went to an attorney, we had an estate plan, we had trusts, and there were still things I didn't know. So I think the first thing is just get the information. It is not fun to say, oh dad, in case you die. But you know, you do have to have it. And the sooner you have it, the better. And I think, the second thing is to know that you should always ask for more money. Like I don't care what anybody says. When we still are thinking about equal payday for Latinas being, you know, welcome to October, like that's bananas to me, like how are we still in this place?

Karen:

And we have to use not just our own voice. I love what you said about like, the shift in the voices cause I do also see and feel it, but we have to support each other. Like we have to really think about it. Like we're really intentional, like as offices have opened up and as opportunities have opened up to bring along, like I just hired a new project manager who is a woman of color who was in the events field and you know, that went to hell during the pandemic. And I'm trying to bring her back into the corporate world because we have to actively engage and help each other. And then I guess three is just remember you've got to save money, like shoes and bags are great, but you know, don't be Carrie Bradshaw, save the money.

Shelley:

Save money, share your bags. Easy to share, pass them around.

Karen:

Yes, trade! Yes!

 

Shelley:

Recycle, share the bags.

Kirstin:

Well, even before I get my three, I do want to, you know you said something really important, which is we talk about women, but women are not a monolithic group and women of different backgrounds, whether Black, African American, Hispanic, Latino from the LGBT community, these are very different experiences people have. Familial, emotional, practical, in terms of the responsibilities you carry, kind of the inheritance, you may not receive. Right? So, it's really important to acknowledge that all women are not the same. And we've tried to do some research with actually Jen in the audience's leadership, really listening to people, to women and men in these different communities and to say, well, how do you feel and think about money and wealth and investing? Because we can't serve you just by doing what we've always done before. We need to know who you are and where you're starting. So we can meet you where you are and really help you.

Kirstin:

But the three things I would say, I think it's important. One is plan, right? So it's, you know make a plan to pay down your debts, make a plan to save your money. Two is invest. When we interviewed women several years ago, one of the greatest regrets they had was not investing more earlier, not making their money work for them. And the third is people talk about women living longer, and I said this before, sometimes it can just feel like all bad news. You know, pink razors are more expensive, but you know what, make longevity an asset. Women live longer and isn't that fricking cool? And so, use your 401k plans,  get your matching dollars, make it all work for you so you can make that long life great.

Speaker 5:

Great. Can, oh, you can hear me great. And I can hear me. That's awkward.

Kirstin:

You sound great.

Speaker 5:

Thank you.

Shelley:

That's recording your voice.

Speaker 5:

I am. Thank you. I'm a millennial, this group that everyone like talks about in mystery, but I'll say this. We lived through financial crisis and then recently a pandemic. So I'll speak for myself, but I think a trend I'm seeing amongst me and my friends are this idea of waiting 35 years before we like retire and enjoy our lives just isn't viable because life is very short and the security doesn't seem to be there. Like these institutions that we were taught to trust aren't necessarily panning out in ways that we think that they should. So like, we've been flirting with the idea of like, I've had friends actually like quit jobs, go on sabbaticals, take extended leaves. But like, how can we make that sustainable where we're not constantly on this like, wheel of making enough money so we can quit for six months so we can get back and make more money, but like have a plan where we can enjoy our lives simultaneously investing in our future.

Kirstin:

Well, I'm going to sound like a broken record and then you can jump in, which is, you said the word isn't it? Like the answer is a plan. And so don't wake up one day and be like, Tuesday feels like the day I don't want to work anymore. You got to say, okay, if that's the life I want and that's of course legitimate, right. To say, okay, I want to create a balance between how I prioritize my work and what role it plays in my life and the other things I value. Well say to yourself, or talk to somebody about, well, what does it take to make that work? How much money do I need to save? How long can I be away from working or be working part-time? And then when do I need to start again? And how much do I need to think about, how do I need to budget during that time off?

Kirstin:

And so, you know the answer, because you said the word, right, which is you got to plan for it. And again, part of that is not being afraid to talk about money and knowing that money does play a role in that, but just taking control of it and saying, how can I make this work for me? And the knowledge then does become your power, your power to make those choices, to take risks that you want to take. You know, maybe it's not working. Maybe it's being entrepreneurial. Maybe it's starting your business, but all those things you're going to do better if you have a plan.

Karen:

Yeah. And I would say, I love that you brought that up because a big part of what we do at AARP even though it's, you know, American Association of Retired Persons, which we never say anymore, it's intentional because people are not retiring. And you know, and it's not just you millennial, it's also gen X. Like we're like, this is not great. The plant is not to work, retire, get a watch, garden, whatever. The plan is to have, we talk all the time in the office about the non-linear life, that we're not doing this kind of like chapter by chapter thing where you like, we do the thing that everybody else before us has done, it's really about like, what is that non-linear thing? Like go back to school when you're 40, like go back, actually get your first degree when you're 40, go to graduate school when you're 60.

Karen:

Like, I know somebody who got her PhD when she was 70, because she was just like, well, if I'm going to live longer, I might as well do something. And I'm like, getting your PhD is a lot of something, but you know, that's cool. But yeah, like I think that's great. I think that's great that you're thinking about like, how do we really balance this? And I think if we take anything from this pandemic, we've heard the term work life balance for a really long time. And that was a lot of bullshit.

Shelley:

Bullshit.

Karen:

Because I mean, like we all lived that life where we're on the road. Like I remember packing for like LA and Chicago and New York. And then Indianapolis, like all in like one suitcase, because I had to go and do a bunch of like, events, which I all loved, but like that's not balance.

Karen:

What you're talking about is actually planning for it. I love that you're just honing in on that because it's about planning. It's about planning for the life you want to have, and knowing that like, if you do this work now you're really investing in yourself. You're investing in your time. You're investing in your personal growth. You're investing in your portfolio. You know, one thing we also talk about at AARP is your friend portfolio. Don't just be friends with people who are on your freshman hall, which I think a lot of us did. Like really think about balancing your friend portfolio. I have a friend who is well into his nineties and you know, one day I was like, oh my God, I guess we're friends. Like, it's kind of crazy. But you know, he's a really fascinating person and he's got a different point of view and he teaches me so much in the conversations we have.

Karen:

So balance your friend portfolios, like look for people who can give you the advice of, you know what, do this. At least start to trade bags with each other, like whatever the advice is, like we have networks, there's the legendary old boys network. Like, you know what about just the women's network. Like we should really be helping each other and kicking each other a little bit in the ass every so often to say, you know what? You can do better. Earlier there were people talking about bragging more. Like, yeah, brag a little bit. Stop apologizing. Stop saying, just so you know, blah, blah. Like, no, just say here, clarify this for me. We can be our own best advocates and we can help each other get through all the different plans. And really, I love that you're thinking in terms of how can I enjoy my life? Because that's so important. If the pandemic has taught us anything, we know that that's critical because you know, we always like say, oh, tomorrow isn't promise, but we know that to be true.

Shelley:

Anyways, retirement is so boring. Like, and my friend Michael Clinton wrote a book called Roar and he says 60 is not the new 40, 60 is 60, and enjoy every chapter of your life. And it's just so, yeah.

Kirstin:

Aging's better than the alternative.

Shelley:

Yeah.

Kirstin:

Right.

Shelley:

It's just so fun. So work to live, live to work. When you love what you do, it's called passion. Find passion in every stage of your life. It's just so fun. One more question. I know we're late, but I promised questions.

Speaker 6:

I'll be really fast. Oh shit, was it me? Oh, I'm sorry.

Shelley:

Two questions, but let's go fast.

Kirstin:

We'll stay around too, if people want to talk after.

Shelley:

We're moving fast.

Speaker 6:

Okay. I'm just going really fast. Okay. Like you guys, I grew up, no one told me how to deal with money or anything. In the last couple of years, I've been comfortable enough to be fully financially independent, do all that great shit. Okay, cool. Thing is like having a financial planner I'm finding, is not sometimes cheap. Like people charge a lot of money. What would you say the next step is if I can't pay like $2,000 or a thousand dollars or whatever, like are there any resources you could start with or you recommend, and no answer is a bad answer. Just somewhere to help to start this sort of like financial planning when you don't have any experience or help at all. And you're not really rich. so.

Kirstin:

Well you're looking to make yourself rich, it sounds like right. Which is great, and you should. I mean, look, I think the great thing is financial advice is being democratized in a lot of ways. And so there are more and more tools available digitally. And again, you're going to find the one that works for you. But the second thing I would say is talk to people. Okay. I mean, we were just talking about it, whether it's your peers or find people around you, it may not be your family, it sounds like in your case. Or maybe it could be, it might be that they just hadn't talked about it and they needed you to start the conversation. But find people, in the workplace, in your community, and ask the question again. Everyone's uncomfortable talking about money, older people too, older people even more so. But it doesn't mean if you ask them that they wouldn't be thrilled to share their experiences and their insights with you. So there's lots of free people resources out there for you as well.

Shelley:

Okay. Last one really fast before I get in trouble. But I'm always in trouble, so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 7:

Thank you. This has been great. My question is around, women are getting married much later and are often coming to the relationship with a substantial amount of assets or portfolios that are already built. And so what are best practices around prenups to make sure that you protect your assets, but also move forward in a positive way with this marriage, or what are things to kind of avoid in that for your assets now and your potential future assets.

Kirstin:

So glad I let you ask that question.

Karen:

That's a loaded question. Wow.

Kirstin:

Yeah. I mean, look. I'll start, but I don't know if I have a good answer around that but I'll give it a shot. Which is, look, I don't have a good answer on prenups, but I'm married and I've been married for almost 20 years and I have two beautiful children, one of whom are here. And being married, isn't always easy. And starting by communicating about, you're going to have to communicate throughout your life about things that are hard and things are going to change in ways that you cannot begin to imagine when you're starting out this journey. And so starting out from a place where you say, okay, we need to talk about money, because you should do that whether or not you want to have a prenup because you're going to be living together and making financial decisions together. Even if your money isn't shared, it's going to touch one another.

Kirstin:

So saying, this is how I think about money. How do you think about money? This is how I think about saving. How do you think about saving? And then as a natural outcome of that to say, and it's perfectly legitimate to say, and I've worked really hard and you've worked really hard. I would like us to build a great life together, but keep some of our finances separate. How can we do that in a way that feels great for both of us? To me, the structure of the prenup is nothing compared to the importance of that conversation. And again, I can assure you, it's not the last hard conversation you're going to have.

Karen:

Yeah. And I would agree it's about communication. And I like, sorry, like this is like the randomest thing that just popped into my head. Like, so I get some financial advice from like Netflix. So on an episode of Love is Blind they had these people who are getting married and they realized one of them just has no idea where his money is and she has 401ks and portfolios and everything else. And they just sat there. I was like, oh, they're doomed. Because it is absolutely critical that you not, you don't have to have the exact parallel relationships with money, but you have to know how those two fit together.

Karen:

So I would say, as somebody who is not married, I get a lot of information from my married friends who are just like, you would not believe what is happening. Like you would not believe how he thinks about this. And part of it's like, well, why are you talking to me about it? Like talk to him and like come to some, you don't have to agree as in you are perfectly aligned, but just come to some concurrence. I think that's absolutely critical to have those real conversations, is to just talk about the money and then have a general plan that you can agree with.

Shelley:

But in your prenup, make sure that he pays for your bags and your shoes. Thank you very much.

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the FQ

Female Quotient 

MAP5449588   04/11/2024